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    Thread: Malaysian Airlines flight 370, 777-200 has gone missing.

    1. Forum Sponsor Brendan@bwalkauto's Avatar
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      03-12-2014 10:26 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Gern_Blanston View Post
      I salute you, sir!
      Years later and I still laugh. I found the PDF I had of that thread recently and laughed really hard.
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      Quote Originally Posted by SivNiz View Post
      Have you ever been to the Terror Grill? Would you like to go?

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      03-13-2014 12:37 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by mx5er View Post
      Can something like the E-3 AWACS or E-2 Hawkeye capable of finding a debris field?
      How can a AWACS find a plane thats now aboard an alien mothership?

      On another note, this is a good read on Air France 447 which will likely come to play in this: https://www.informs.org/ORMS-Today/P...nce-Flight-447
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      03-13-2014 04:00 AM #38
      http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...3Drss_Page_One

      U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

      The investigators believe the plane flew for a total of five hours based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program.

      That raises a host of new questions and possibilities about what happened aboard the widebody jet carrying 239 people, which vanished from civilian air-traffic control radar over the weekend, about one hour into a flight to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur.

      Six days after the mysterious disappearance prompted a massive international air and water search that so far hasn't produced any results, the investigation appears to be broadening in scope.

      U.S. counterterrorism officials are pursuing the possibility that a pilot or someone else on board the plane may have diverted it toward an undisclosed location after intentionally turning off the jetliner's transponders to avoid radar detection, according to one person tracking the probe.

      The investigation remains fluid, and it isn't clear whether investigators have evidence indicating possible terrorism or espionage. So far, U.S. national security officials have said that nothing specifically points toward terrorism, though they haven't ruled it out.

      But the huge uncertainty about where the plane was headed, and why it continued flying so long without working transponders, has raised theories among investigators that the aircraft may have been commandeered for a reason that appears unclear to U.S. authorities. Some of those theories have been laid out to national security officials and senior personnel from various U.S. agencies, according to one person familiar with the matter.

      At one briefing, according to this person, officials were told investigators are actively pursuing the notion that the plane was diverted "with the intention of using it later for another purpose."

      As of Wednesday it remained unclear whether the plane reached an alternate destination or if it ultimately crashed, potentially hundreds of miles from where an international search effort has been focused.

      In those scenarios, neither mechanical problems, pilot mistakes nor some other type of catastrophic incident caused the 250-ton plane to mysteriously vanish from radar.

      The latest revelations come as local media reported that Malaysian police visited the home of at least one of the two pilots.

      Boeing officials and a Malaysia Airlines official declined to comment.

      The engines' onboard monitoring system is provided by their manufacturer, Rolls-Royce PLC, and it periodically sends bursts of data about engine health, operations and aircraft movements to facilities on the ground.
      Many areas in that part of the world are not friendly towards 'Western' interests. We could potentially see another attack come from this.

      Of course it could be nothing but the longer this lasts, the more concerned I get.

      It reads like the plot of a Tom Clancy/Clive Cussler novel.
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      03-13-2014 04:09 AM #39
      Hijacked a plane and landed somewhere ?

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      03-13-2014 06:03 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by The Maytag Man View Post
      It crashed.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Presumably then you know where it is !!!!!
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      03-13-2014 08:09 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Brendan@bwalkauto View Post
      Years later and I still laugh. I found the PDF I had of that thread recently and laughed really hard.
      I know. It still makes me laugh to think about it. I wonder where Commander Richard Ryan Healey is these days... Probably busy doing all the f-35 test flying for Lockheed, or helping the ICAO find Malaysia Flight 370 or solving all of Boeings DreamLiner problems for 'em.
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      03-13-2014 08:12 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Gern_Blanston View Post
      I know. It still makes me laugh to think about it. I wonder where Commander Richard Ryan Healey is these days... Probably busy doing all the f-35 test flying for Lockheed, or helping the ICAO find Malaysia Flight 370 or solving all of Boeings DreamLiner problems for 'em.
      I was just boarding an American Eagle jet, and was tempted to ask the pilots if they've seen any Senior 777 Drvrs. Alas, the plane broke and we had to get off. Now I'm on a 737, and that's too far below his pay scale, so I didn't ask.
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      Quote Originally Posted by SivNiz View Post
      Have you ever been to the Terror Grill? Would you like to go?

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      03-13-2014 10:42 PM #43
      So what was the deal with JetDrvr? Must have been before my time.

    9. 03-13-2014 11:57 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by emmettlodge View Post
      So what was the deal with JetDrvr? Must have been before my time.
      IIRC he either completely lied, and or inflated about everything about himself.

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      03-14-2014 02:10 AM #45
      I missed all that stuff about JetDrvr (I don't do much of A.net anymore, and I only post in TechOps), wasn't he the guy who pretended to be a 777 Captain for UA or something?

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      03-14-2014 09:30 AM #46
      So he wasn't actually a JetDrvr? Or just not a Trpl7Drvr?

    12. 03-14-2014 09:42 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by emmettlodge View Post
      So he wasn't actually a JetDrvr? Or just not a Trpl7Drvr?
      I seem to recall he was and AmrCnPigeon driver (American Eagle turboprop or maybe a jungle jet). He just LOVED posting in A&S as if he were a senior 777 captain with (factually wrong) statements about its operation etc. Some guys in here tracked him down and outed him, complete with his selfie picks looking at porn in the cockpit while the captain was sleeping mid-flight.

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      03-14-2014 10:47 AM #48
      Aliens?

      This whole story is also very ironic to me since I'm not a fan of flying. I had to fly a few months ago and on the return trip, I sat next to a pilot for the airline (we were on a 777) who assured me of how safe they are, how they can still land with no power, etc. This was also around the same time as the plane that landed at the wrong airport (which he also assured me that, while not impossible, was also highly unlikely). It's also amazing to me that in today's day and age of technology, satellite tracking, and all of that stuff, that something like this can just vanish for a week and counting with no clue as to its whereabouts. I keep hearing about satellites that can read license plates from orbit, but all China can do is offer up blurry blob pictures of something floating in the ocean?

      I guess they need to make sure future models don't have systems that can be turned off by the crew or something? Especially after 9/11, I would think every plane would have a constantly on tracking system anyway (or do they? I am obviously an aviation layman).
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      03-14-2014 11:50 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 03GTI4Me View Post
      http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...3Drss_Page_One

      ... after intentionally turning off the jetliner's transponders to avoid radar detection...
      Would one of the experts here please explain why it's even possible to do this midflight on a commercial passenger jet liner? I just don't understand why that would even be a possibility. Seems like such an important function that it ought to be accessible only when the plane is on the ground. If it has something to do with turning them off after touchdown I have to believe the technology exists to have the transponders shut off automatically under the appropriate conditions.

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      03-14-2014 11:59 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by FigureFive View Post
      Would one of the experts here please explain why it's even possible to do this midflight on a commercial passenger jet liner? I just don't understand why that would even be a possibility. Seems like such an important function that it ought to be accessible only when the plane is on the ground. If it has something to do with turning them off after touchdown I have to believe the technology exists to have the transponders shut off automatically under the appropriate conditions.
      If the transponder malfunctioned you would need to be able to turn it off. For example, it starts broadcasting a 75/76/7700 distress code and won't let you switch back to 1200 (or whatever your assigned code was if you were in the middle of working with ATC)...that would be a great time to use the offf switch so every controller that sees you doesn't **** their pants

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      03-14-2014 12:17 PM #51
      Is it protocol in some airlines to turn off transponders in certain airspaces?
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      03-14-2014 01:25 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by emmettlodge View Post
      If the transponder malfunctioned you would need to be able to turn it off. For example, it starts broadcasting a 75/76/7700 distress code and won't let you switch back to 1200 (or whatever your assigned code was if you were in the middle of working with ATC)...that would be a great time to use the offf switch so every controller that sees you doesn't **** their pants
      But is there not just some generic constantly on GPS broadcasting the plane's location or something? I would think that in a post 9/11 world, it would be in everyone's best interest to know where the planes are at all times, let alone in a case like this if it goes down. I think I'm not alone in that I just find it incredibly hard to believe that a commercial airliner could just disappear with all of the tech we have nowadays - there should be some redundant system that can't be tampered with that broadcasts the plane's location (with a battery back up if power goes out).
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      03-14-2014 04:26 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Brendan@bwalkauto View Post
      Years later and I still laugh. I found the PDF I had of that thread recently and laughed really hard.
      if you still have that pdf file...post it up!
      it should be good for a laugh or 2 for those that haven't seen it.

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      03-14-2014 07:59 PM #54


      A 100 000 000$ reward should be offered at this point.

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      03-15-2014 11:39 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Provocyclist View Post
      So back on March 8th, I posted this on my FaceySpace:
      "Seeing as how there's no wreckage found yet, here's my theory as to what happened to flight MH370: The two people using the stolen passports hijacked the plane. All radio and communications equipment was turned off, and they took the plane to an altitude of >200' to evade radar detection. They did a fuel dump to throw off the investigation. They then took the plane to a remote airfield."


      Who'd have guessed how almost accurate this would be?
      That's not even close to what they think happened.
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    21. 03-16-2014 06:19 PM #56
      Damn now they are saying it might of landed some where in pakistan area. Damn if it's this easy, I'm out to getting a jet plane with out any hostages of course. Any one have private land strip?

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      03-16-2014 10:42 PM #57
      New map showing the latest search area has been released.


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      03-16-2014 10:48 PM #58
      I still haven't seen an answer to my earlier question - why don't planes have some redundant GPS tracking device/transmitter to keep track of their location that *cannot* be switched off by anyone. Nothing fancy, just something that sends out a signal every once in a while to show where the plane is (think something along the lines of a SPOT locator that you can use for hiking or motorcycling if you know what that is). I'm not talking a transponder box that can be switched off, something that cannot be tampered with by anyone on the plane (in theory at any rate). If nothing else, this case should make that mandatory on all future manufacturing of planes so that a freaking multi million dollar air liner can't just vanish into thin air with 240 people on board.
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      03-17-2014 05:06 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I still haven't seen an answer to my earlier question - why don't planes have some redundant GPS tracking device/transmitter to keep track of their location that *cannot* be switched off by anyone.
      From what I have read, technology like that is mandated by 2020 (at least for the US). Sometimes the high cost of satellite data transmission is cited, but I agree that a simple identification, GPS data, and some minimum system status and things like altitude and air speed should be doable at low cost - and could have easily been developed and deployed years ago.
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      03-17-2014 09:49 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      From what I have read, technology like that is mandated by 2020 (at least for the US). Sometimes the high cost of satellite data transmission is cited, but I agree that a simple identification, GPS data, and some minimum system status and things like altitude and air speed should be doable at low cost - and could have easily been developed and deployed years ago.
      Yeah, I'm really surprised something like that isn't already in place, seems fairly common sense to me for a variety of reasons. Oh well....
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    26. 03-17-2014 11:31 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I still haven't seen an answer to my earlier question - why don't planes have some redundant GPS tracking device/transmitter to keep track of their location that *cannot* be switched off by anyone. Nothing fancy, just something that sends out a signal every once in a while to show where the plane is (think something along the lines of a SPOT locator that you can use for hiking or motorcycling if you know what that is). I'm not talking a transponder box that can be switched off, something that cannot be tampered with by anyone on the plane (in theory at any rate). If nothing else, this case should make that mandatory on all future manufacturing of planes so that a freaking multi million dollar air liner can't just vanish into thin air with 240 people on board.
      You need to be able to shut off anything electrical. If a box catches fire, you don't want to keep feeding it power. Just about the only things that can't be killed either by a switch, circuit breaker, or turning off a generator are the flight controls system and standby flight instruments on the essential battery bus. Obviously, they keep a minimum of equipment on that bus to make the battery last as long as possible.

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      03-18-2014 12:24 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by gr8shandini View Post
      You need to be able to shut off anything electrical. If a box catches fire, you don't want to keep feeding it power. Just about the only things that can't be killed either by a switch, circuit breaker, or turning off a generator are the flight controls system and standby flight instruments on the essential battery bus. Obviously, they keep a minimum of equipment on that bus to make the battery last as long as possible.
      I suppose, but how about it having an on board battery back up if the main power had to be cut in case of a fire? Again, they make things like this for hikers, bikers, motorcyclists, etc. for like $100 - they can't stick one on a plane? The likelihood of a device like that catching fire, while not impossible obviously, isn't very probable. How do the black boxes work? They must have some kind of battery system when they get activated to broadcast its location right? What's the difference between something like that and having a redundant GPS tracker on the plane in case something like this happens? Obviously I'm not an aviation expert, but I just cannot believe that a plane cannot have a tracking system in place in the event that it does a vanishing act like this plane did. That's the only answer? Sorry, it might catch fire so anyone on the plane can turn it off? That doesn't seem very practical from a safety standpoint in the event of a hijacking or something. Obviously you also don't want a whole plane crashing because a small box causes a fire either, I get that, but there has to be something that could be put into place?
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      03-18-2014 08:02 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      Yeah, I'm really surprised something like that isn't already in place, seems fairly common sense to me for a variety of reasons. Oh well....
      Especially since these type of searches are in the 100 million + $ range and easily overshadow the deployment costs of satellite status data transmissions on all major aircraft, combined.
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    29. 03-18-2014 11:42 AM #64
      IM starting to wonder if this aircraft will ever be found. Lets just assume it crashed into the ocean somewhere. With the potential places the aircraft could be, and no sign of floating wreckage, how will it realistically ever be found?

      At least with AF447 there was decent clues as to the aircrafts final resting spot, and even with that it took two years to find it. With MH370, we have a couple radar pings and that't it. No debris, any fuel slick would have been well gone by now, and much of what would have been floating debris would have sank.



    30. 03-18-2014 12:14 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I suppose, but how about it having an on board battery back up if the main power had to be cut in case of a fire? Again, they make things like this for hikers, bikers, motorcyclists, etc. for like $100 - they can't stick one on a plane? The likelihood of a device like that catching fire, while not impossible obviously, isn't very probable. How do the black boxes work? They must have some kind of battery system when they get activated to broadcast its location right? What's the difference between something like that and having a redundant GPS tracker on the plane in case something like this happens? Obviously I'm not an aviation expert, but I just cannot believe that a plane cannot have a tracking system in place in the event that it does a vanishing act like this plane did. That's the only answer? Sorry, it might catch fire so anyone on the plane can turn it off? That doesn't seem very practical from a safety standpoint in the event of a hijacking or something. Obviously you also don't want a whole plane crashing because a small box causes a fire either, I get that, but there has to be something that could be put into place?
      It's certainly possible. However, I don't think anyone designing these maintenance reporting systems ever expected anyone to intentionally disable them in order to steal an airplane, so they're considered "expendable". In almost all emergencies, the pilot will be squawking the emergency code and talking to ATC as much as possible.

      And as far a cost/benefit goes, you may be able to get a personal locator beacon for a hundred bucks or so, but a flight-worthy model will end up costing $2500 or more and require several hundred thousand for flight testing in every model of aircraft it's going into. If this sort of thing were common, it'd probably be worth it. But this is the first time it's ever happened so far as I know.

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      03-18-2014 01:32 PM #66
      Very possible it will never be found.

      NWA #2501 disappeared somewhere over Lake Michigan in 1950 and to this day the plane has not been located.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwe...es_Flight_2501

    32. 03-18-2014 01:52 PM #67
      Heck, back in the '50s, a B-25 crashed into the Mon River within the Pittsburgh city limits in broad daylight and it was never found. They think they have an idea where it may be, but no evidence:

      http://www.damninteresting.com/retired/the-lost-bomber/

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      03-18-2014 03:15 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by gr8shandini View Post
      It's certainly possible. However, I don't think anyone designing these maintenance reporting systems ever expected anyone to intentionally disable them in order to steal an airplane, so they're considered "expendable". In almost all emergencies, the pilot will be squawking the emergency code and talking to ATC as much as possible.

      And as far a cost/benefit goes, you may be able to get a personal locator beacon for a hundred bucks or so, but a flight-worthy model will end up costing $2500 or more and require several hundred thousand for flight testing in every model of aircraft it's going into. If this sort of thing were common, it'd probably be worth it. But this is the first time it's ever happened so far as I know.
      But that cost would be negligible when you are looking at something like a commercial airliner that costs like what? 200 or 300 million? Not to mention the 239 people that are missing as well, can't really put a dollar value on them either. I just can't see why a basic GPS tracking device isn't fitted to all planes, seems to be such a simple common sense thing to do.
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    34. 03-18-2014 04:12 PM #69
      Well, if you really want to get down to it, if you're an airline, you're not directly comparing the cost of the incident vs the cost of the solution. You're comparing the cost of the solution to the cost of insurance against the incident. There's something like 93,000 commercial flights every day. If you consider that Air France 447 was the last incident where this sort of system would be helpful, that's about 170 million flights in between. As you can see, you're talking about a very, very rare event. And you have to carry insurance against hull loss and the associated liability anyway, so I don't see where it's cost effective for airlines to do this. If it was, their insurance companies would be practically mandating it.

      The fact of the matter is, if someone really, really wants to disable any piece of equipment, it can be done. Sure, the FAA can make all kinds of regulations in the wake of this incident (which wouldn't apply to a Malaysian flight anyway), but it's all a waste of money when you consider that the aircrew can bring down any flight at will. There are some risks you just can't mitigate.

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      03-18-2014 10:48 PM #70
      A possibility?





      In all seriousness though I feel bad for the families. They need closure. My thought is that jet is in about 10,000 feet of water spread out over a 2 mile area.

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